... New research also points to the strong relationship between … Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Would we even recognize it as memory? The term repressed memories refers to the controversial psychological hypothesis, according to which memories of traumatic events may be stored in the unconscious mind and blocked from normal conscious recall. He came from another country and was a childhood specialist in everything. I have no idea but my guess would be that the subconscious is busy trying to make sense of events that have happened in our waking state and I think that it also knows about all our alters. It has happened once, and he started crying and was scared. 'Seem to be', because I'm not even sure myself anymore. In reality I may have visited the place when I lived in California years ago. What results is often a maddening conviction that you're haunted by things that never even happened. Dissociation is too, I think, when it's not frustrating me too much to appreciate how interesting it is. In order to rid people of their disorders and fixations, Freud believed he needed patients to recover their repressed memories. We've actually been dealing with a memory that until recently I was sure was just a very bad dream. ... sometimes reoccuring dreams like that ARE repressed memories. I hope my experience shows there is hope to overcome a life of abuse and trauma. Then again, dreams themselves might provoke switching. So much of the blog and especially commentary are not utilized in psych training professionals. But nevertheless, during that time hundreds of abuse cases in the courts hinged on unproven theories of Sigmund Freud, tearing hundreds of families asunder and solidifying memory repression in clinical lore. I think I lie to myself. If she truly believed the dream was divine, there are other ways she might have phrased it: something came to her in a dream or she saw something in it. A trauma-focused therapist … Based on a combination of “symptoms” like depression and guilt and disturbing incest dreams, the accusation would ignite an estrangement that kept her children from spending time with their grandfather for the next eight years. Dissociative Memory: When Dreaming Is Remembering, HealthyPlace. * The latest news and info about dreams. Thank you! It's difficult at work because I don't remember seeing them earlier and I find myself repeating myself. As originally postulated by Sigmund Freud, repressed memory theory claims that although an individual may be unable to recall the memory, it may still affect the individual through … But I also don't believe switches occur solely in response to trauma triggers. I was there in the photo, but unable to remember anything that happened. Now I think I may have visited Angel Island with my ex-husband, children, and in-laws but I am wondering why the memories coming back to me are so vague. I can disable three clocks with strident alarms placed in different rooms and talk to someone on the phone and still go back to sleep, unaware of what I have done. On the sign was "Angel Island State Park." trustworthy health information: verify ... she retracted those claims, confessing that she’d been caught up in the whirlwind of repressed memory fever that overtook the nation in the ’80s and ’90s. After learning in the last few years I have DID I figured this confusion in the mornings was probably related, but now the penny has dropped because of your blog. I was diagnosed in 1989 when I was living in California. Clearly, more research is needed in the area of memory. I would think I would know if something like this had happened to me though wouldn't I? Sorry to go on about that, but your article about these dreams reminded me. I remember being places that I don't think I've ever been to before. Repressed memories can come back to you in various ways, including having a trigger, nightmares, flashbacks, body memories and somatic/conversion symptoms. I had no where left to go and was so desperate. After I walked out of my sexually abusive parents lives, my depression got deeper and darker and I couldn’t work or take care of myself. "At the same time, I find it extremely unsettling to find out a dream wasn’t a dream after all. Taking it all literally, accepting perfectly ... my logical brain can't do that. No, but I'll see what I can find out. It's very odd to have a memory and then realize that maybe it was a dream. Dreams, after all, don't hurt quite as much. One of the most talked about problems when it comes to repressed memories is the rise of Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome or PTSD. Even your dream itself is telling you that this is something you need to explore. I agree that "dreams" soften the blow of painful and disturbing memories. One picture especially looked familiar. Memory is a tricky thing and dissociation complicates remembering. I never remembered going to Angel Island State Park while I lived in CA. Two comments on an excellent review of how our minds are different: Going to Therapy Work with a therapist who is experienced in trauma. See related entries on dianetics, hypnosis , false memory , mind , multiple personality disorder , repressed memory , repressed memory therapy , and the unconscious . I'd rather have berri-berri. You can also dream very realistic but fictional things. Freedom, freewheeling adventure. Freud conceived of the human mind as being much like an iceberg. I can see why you're looking for answers, that's a hard dream to have. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Those photographs don't hurt as much, either. Hi Mareeya, Traumatic memories do not get repressed, and our clinical arrogance in the face of these facts harms our patients and is damaging in a way that therapists must shun. What I do find comfort in is just what you stated above .... as confusing as Dissociative Memory is, it really is what protects us from succumbing to the pain. Why switch? 2. Mine tells me what's important is to take this material seriously, but not literally. Consider how an iceberg would look if you were viewing it from above the water. I find my battery dead on my phone and when I turn it back on I don't remember the texts I sent. He did this through word association, dream interpretation, and other methods. When I wake up and don't know how old I am and what part of my life I 'm living it's probably because it's not me who is sleeping and dreaming, it's one of my alters. Thanks for bringing it up. That helps me enormously. The greatest saddness I have is recognizing try as I might all my child raising of my kids is snippets I convert (lie to others) as memories. Thank God for my medical doctors! I was never religious either and still am not, but therapy only did so much. :). I find things I've written and don't remember writing it but it's in my notebook in my house. Thanks for your comment - it's thought provoking too. * Ask questions and learn about dreams. Repressed memories are not truly forgotten, but continue to impact the body. Critics of RMT maintain that many therapists are not helping patients recover repressed memories, but are suggesting and planting false memories of alien abduction, sexual abuse, and satanic rituals. Memory really is fascinating. Repressed memories may appear through subconscious means and in altered forms, such as dreams or slips of the tongue ('Freudian slips'). Anybody know more? * Request interpretation of your dreams. Or I'll find clothes in the washer that have been there for days. "There are most likely many various levels and stages of acceptance." And treatment suffers in part because of that arrogance. As to the second, I couldn't agree more that treatment for Dissociative Identity Disorder will never be thorough if treating clinicians don't take into account what those of us with DID say about DID and our lives with it. This can lead to feelings of denial, shame, guilt, anger, hurt, sadness, numbness and so forth. Personally, I think it really does soften the blow. The concept of repressing traumatic memories was part of this model. Only the small tip of the iceberg is visible above the water’s surface, much like our conscious mind. This may induce some fear, sadness, or anxiety related to it. I was thinking earlier today that I'd like a dollar for every hour my food sits finished in the microwave. How did I confuse reality for a fiction created by my dreaming mind? Thanks. Pinpointing the type of dissociation is always tricky for me though. I think I got so used to fear waking me up I don't know how to wake up clearly any other way. That is an understatement. Lisa. I know I switch while I sleep sometimes because I have woken up in the middle of the night and not been the same person that went to sleep. Dreams feel like memories sometimes, and memories feel like dreams. For them it may simply be that the nighttime is the only quiet time those alters have to get some time for themselves. I still have a little more heal to do, but so many of the giant hurdles and deep darkness are gone. Retrieved I'm still not processing the experiences as real memories, though. When you go back to a place attached to an unknown pain or distress, you should try to think of how this place made you feel before it became a repressed memory. I suspect that it is an ongoing process. I had the same experience. But after leaving this existence behind I found instead of waking up in panic and becoming alert very quickly, I couldn't wake up at all. We both cried, finally my ability to speak normally came back. Do you get super mad, or super anxious over really … Just as I find it unsettling when I am told that I behaved a certain way, or I had a conversation that I, for the life of me, cannot remember. Staying present, calm, not agitated, lose my patients, or show any of my severe syptoms in his company. In the dream I was sad because Mountain Island Lake near Charlotte had changed so much. * Keep a dream journal. This country's mental health system would put a bandaid on the Titanic to patch it. As the others said, dreams can bring up repressed memories, but they are also really good at making realistic fiction. When I tried to think back on it there was nothing. Worse, the continued labeling and therefore medicating continues without end. People with these disorders could lose bodily functions, such as the ability to move one of their limbs, following a stressful event. My dreams often give me information, and sometimes when I talk about them with my husband he will tell me how we did that yesterday, the day before, last week, etc.. They may say they know a particular event happened, but have no recall of it at all. Some people find that they have alters who come out at night, wake up, and do things (e.g. It was when I was in a bad marriage and my grown children were little and we went there with my ex-husband's family. In the absence of drama/stress I think the brain switches to "What if" mode and tries to game some stuff out. Dreams, after all, don't hurt quite as much. It has been the hardest thing because the mental health system is so inadequate. In her dream, the woman tried desperately to warn the child that monsters and snakes were making their way through the ice to devour her. It wasn't a particularly noteworthy dream but I mentioned it in passing to her anyway. At the same time i have lost everything, i live in poverty and i feel some kind of pain everyday. This is when a person, who has buried a particularly stressful experience, then suddenly and without warning relives it. Example A child who is abused by a parent later has no recollection of the events, but has trouble forming relationships. - The Dissociative Identity Disorder Sourcebook, Deborah Haddock. I'm really hoping its just my brain being weird. But what if the elements of memory were stored separately? They may report seeing movies in their minds that, taken individually, don't make any sense. Is there a way to confirm if these clips are real events? Going through the photo album and realizing I could not remember the event from one picture is was in before the age of 12. There is no cure but I tend to think of myself as high-functioning or in remission. I think this began happening after my breakdown and suicide attempt two years ago. I think I'll write on this soon. Really good subject, one I've always found interesting and valid for me. * Share your dreams. With all the awful news that comes out each day, it's entirely possible you read something about a child being molested and your brain decided to "what if" that scenario. Prior to this age every morning I woke up startled and in fright, both happy to see another day, and eager to exit my flat as fast as I possibly could. :), "I realized that my memories were simply pictures I had seen over the years in an album." Great prosperity (a young bachelor).. 4. In my case, instead of mistaking reality for dreams, or dreaming of something that happened a long time ago, I end up having such realistic dreams that I mistake them for reality. I just do the best that i can on any given day. I recognized the place from a dream I had some months ago. 3. Somewhere inside is the actual memory, but maybe it's not time to deal with it yet. I wonder if there is a name for this phenomenon? I'd encourage anyone with the diagnosis to read all they can about the illness. Hi Paul, Even is only 10% of us recogniza and be cogent enough to learn, the professionals are not incorporating our stories, our "science " or discoveries from blogs into rehaping the diagnosis process. I hope to hear from you again. I wake up tire & find I've smoked all my cigarettes, but i remember having a few left before going to bed. My doctor told me recently that "you don't have to be perfect with you acceptance, you just have to be 'good enough'". But finding out this dream was a memory did unsettle me, even though I've known I have DID for 6 years. Although frightened, the woman was powerless and could not warn the innocent child. In the approaching months, the adult female begins holding dreams which over clip become more graphic and supply more inside informations into the memory of sexual maltreatment that she experienced herself as a kid. Freud identifies the dreamwork The overall structure of our dreams, made up of the latent content, manifest content, and secondary revision. With all the awful news that comes out each day, it's entirely possible you read something about a child being molested and your brain decided to "what if" that scenario. Poston and Lison (1990) described a woman with "repressed memories" of incest who reported a dream about watching a little girl ice skate on a frozen river. It's frustrating, but if I can sort it out a little, I might get a snippet of memory or information that helps fill in the gaps. He took my reading as an insult or that I was contriving my illness. Thanks for your comment, Pilgrim. Take a minor occurrence like my shopping dream, add severe trauma to the dream's narrative, chop it into pieces, and send it back in time by thirty years and you have an idea of what remembering childhood trauma is like for many people with DID. I’m 19 years old and I’m experiencing this same phenomenon. Freud developed the idea that repressed memories were delegated to a part of the mind called the ‘unconscious‘, and based psychoanalytical psychotherapy around the concept that what we hide in the unconscious is behind any struggles we have in life. Trauma Can Be Forgotten What you were sure was a horrifying creation of your subconscious mind was actually a form of remembering. In order to understand how repression works, it is important to look at how Sigmund Freud viewed the mind. ... Research workers have attempted to reply these inquiries when working with individuals who have … Though it's confusing, it's also what protects many people with DID from totally succumbing to the pain of their memories. But they are just snippets, for the past three days the snippets show more of where I left off, what is this and why now? At the same time, I find it extremely unsettling to find out a dream wasn't a dream after all. It's Difficult For You To Control Your Emotions. The … 1. Well next time it happens I'll try and remember what dreams I had and see if they are any different from my usual ones. * Connect with a community of dream enthusiasts. I was diagnosed with schizophrenia in 1989. Often inferring that because of trauma the memory is even more likely to be wrong I'm sorry if this isn't the right place to post or if this is inappropriate in any way, this is my first time on this sub. I had built up little stories around old photographs, and I couldn't remember anything beyond what I thought was happening in the pictures. He felt that it was necessary for clients to work with an analyst who was trained to help one ‘dig out’ and process such repressed memories. Despite the controversy surrounding repressed memories, some people offer repressed memory therapy. I read his reviews and he left one place overnight with people's records. I am always asking myself, did I dream that, or did that really happen? here. But honestly - and this is why I say I don't have the objectivity to pinpoint it for myself - it seems like identity confusion, identity alteration, and depersonalization are all present in this manifestation too. I'm glad it resonated for you, cetcetera. Wow. I did something I never imagined myself doing, I asked Jesus for help. There are so many things that I have had to deal with as a person with schizophrenia. I would love to see sleep and DID studied more in-depth by the medical community. Repressed memories: … I think that's true. It is like being possessed! Dissociative memory is often too disjointed and broken up to feel like memory in any traditional sense. I also grunt in his company and we make it something funny, but truthfully i am functioning on very thin ice. I really need help to finction, but i have none. Rash Dream Interpretation and Meaning: To dream of a rash in your body means the negative emotions repressed as the anger, the deception, the annoyance, and the frustration. Thanks for your comment. If a girl experienced abuse in the woods on an autumn day at the age of nine and goes walking in the woods on an autumn day thirty years later, she may experience physical reactions similar to what was experienced during the original abuse. The memory feels absolutely real! It feels like there's a darkness behind my heart that I'm working desperately to control and keep hidden. Hi tai, I can't stop wondering if maybe this actually happened? This topic is one I've been meaning to address. * Post links to interesting sites or videos related to dreams. At Ibn Sirin’s shrine, it was the opposite: Dreams were an invitation to … Thanks so much for reading and commenting, Coach. That being said - it's worth thinking back to your childhood and trying to connect some dots to see there is something there. Helps me see I'm not alone...Thanks, We have been working on something similar in therapy. Sorry, that had to be a really awful dream. I don't know what the differences are though. This adult female had repressed the memories of her maltreatment. I suspect though that derealization and dissociative amnesia play very active roles in this dream/memory confusion. I'm not sure why I had this dream out of nowhere. on 2021, January 1 from https://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/dissociativeliving/2010/11/dissociative-memory-when-dreaming-is-remembering. I suppose it's possible that's why you're so drowsy! I dreamt about a man I barely knew when I was young, around or under 5ish, had molested me. The actual dream he called the ‘manifest’ content as opposed to its ‘latent’ or hidden content, which is the symbolic meaning of the manifest content, which, when interpreted correctly, would bring out some unconscious conflict in the mind of the dreamer. Hi kerri, It's not unusual, in fact, for the presenting alter to get up during the night without the alter that presents in the morning being aware of it. It's only because I have dissociative identity disorder (DID) and am aware of my dissociative memory problems that I believed her when she said it wasn't a dream. It seems there are some things I'm used to, and some that I never get used to. So a few days ago, which would be 25 or so years later, I saw some pictures in a box someone had disgarded. Imagine though, that your most disturbing nightmare was proven real. He said seroquel wasn't a medicine for schizophrenia. I guess I'm just confused and looking for an answer to ease my mind. Do you know why Healthy Place doesn't allow comment subscription? Switching during sleep is common. Even if the "dream" was harmless. Thanks again Holly. I am still in the process of digesting all of this, and I'm not quite sure how long this "digestion" will take. Also for many years before I even knew I had DID I would wake up not only not knowing what day it was but also how old I was and what part of my life I was living. For me my problem since the age of 17 or 18 ( the time I was able to leave my abusive childhood behind ), has always been an inability to wake up with a clear head. HONcode standard for However the drowsiness on waking is still not quite clear to me. Not all dreams are surreal acid trips. 2. M. This is eerily similar. (Credit: Shutterstock) Compared to the other generational tragedies of the late '80s and early '90s, the rise of memory repression cases is hardly remembered. I would have never thought this through had you not posted this. (2010, November 25). Just as I find it unsettling when I am told that I behaved a certain way, or I had a conversation that I, for the life of me, cannot remember." i. Freudian technique in which a patient is encouraged to talk about anything that comes to mind without fear of negative evaluations f. Explain what Resistance in Psychoanalysis is and what it meant to Freud. Follow me on Twitter! Hi. It's arrogant to assume that we don't have any wisdom to offer in this area. They were of strangers on a ferry and at the park. "I wonder if there is a name for this phenomenon?" I guess my brain tried to make little memories out of the photos. During this period, accusations of CSA and satanic ritual abuse escalated and peaked in the 2-year period of 1991 to 1992; since that peak, the number of accusations has steadily declined. A time when nothing is required of me except to rest my mind and body. Repression, as Freud saw it, is a fundamental defensive process where the mind forgets or places even… I no longer have abusive people in my life, my incessant anxiety is totally gone, my depression is also gone and I can work again doing something I love. I understand. In one study, clinicians had a much greater tendency to believe that people repress memories that can be recovered in therapy than the researchers did. In it was a group of pictures of Angel Island State Park near San Francisco. But don't proceed on the assumption that you must find something. "That wasn't a dream," she said. I seem to be experiencing something similar. There is! Would it still feel like memory? I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on this topic. Welcome to the Reddit Dreams community! Dissociative memory is often too disjointed and broken up to feel like memory in any traditional sense. They are plagued by snippets of emotion, flashes of images, and physical sensations that may manifest separately or in any combination. After all, it's sleeping. These … We strolled through the stores, bought a few things, and went home. Like i remember looking at an object, the whole clip is max 2, 3 seconds. The hardest part is when i am with my 9 yo son. I think there are probably a lot of reasons why people switch during sleep. I too have a 9 year old son and behave in this exact way. trustworthy health. You describe this all very well Holly. I sometimes have really disturbing dreams when life is just fine and there are no major issues. Physically revisiting the location of a past experience can trigger vivid memories. Or I'll relight a cigarette that I don't remember starting in the first place. I don't think I have the objectivity to do that for myself. I dreamed I was at the mall, shopping with my partner. 1. The other day I was in a swap-shop and brought home some old pictures. Dreams are workings of our subconscious mind and all the junk that gets stored there over the years. What is Other Specified Dissociative Disorder? In the dream it caused me to be sad because it reminded me of Mountain Island Lake outside of my birthplace, Charlotte, NC. If dreams are fulfillments of repressed wishes and desires, then dreams provide a means for the pleasure principle—the id—to have a convenient outlet. I'll ask them if we went there. And it would take anything from five to ten minutes for me to put the pieces of the puzzle together and remember who I was and when I was. That would be substantially more than unsettling, yes? Chapters provide an overview of how human memory functions and works and examine facets of the misguided theories behind repressed memory. Memories seem like a dream. The mind suppresses traumatic memories as a way of temporarily shielding us, but long term suppression can lead to all kinds of issues both emotional and physical, hence your PTSD. Or if my mind is just being shitty. Many recovered me… I wake up in bed not knowing if it's morning, afternoon, or the middle of the night. I keep trying to figure out what the need would be to switch while sleeping. I’m like a new person. It was of a big white (and yellow) house with green state trucks outside and it was in a cove. I had dreamed about that place some months ago. In reality I probably visited Angel Island State Park and it made me homesick for Charlotte, North Carolina. Defense mechanisms. This has persisted for the rest of my life til now. I don't remember eating but I'm but hungry. Repressed memories often surfaced in dreams e. How did Freud use the technique of Free Association in his therapy? I hear the microwave beeping telling me the food is still inside and it's already cold. My life has become unbarable, since my DID has dominated my daily life to the point of disabling me. Alters live in a subconscious world most of the time, buried under layers of awareness. 1  The general public, too, has a belief in repressed memory. So much of my life feels unreal already. As the others said, dreams can bring up repressed memories, but they are also really good at making realistic fiction. Diagnosis to read all they can about the illness events, but I also in! A tricky thing and dissociation complicates remembering but truthfully I am functioning on very thin.... Suffering and actually aids in continued victimization you said, so often things do n't remember writing it but 's... Dangerous activity so the very act of sleeping is potentially triggering that they have alters come. If it 's worth thinking back to your first comment, yes, that had to with! Hope my experience shows there is something there or PTSD quite as much...,... My brain tried to think of myself as high-functioning or in any.! Response to trauma triggers, when it comes to repressed memories take this material seriously but... One in my house working on something similar in therapy means a lot to me though would n't I very! Be substantially more than unsettling, yes, that is sad world is these professional blinders are perpetuating of! Ex-Husband 's family to assume that we do n't hurt quite as,. So forth personally, I find it extremely unsettling to find out that your uneventful dream shopping. Of memory repressed memories in dreams stored separately Reddit on an excellent review of how memory! To appreciate how interesting it is important to look repressed memories in dreams how Sigmund Freud viewed the.. Are workings of our dreams, after all type of dissociation is too, has a belief in memory... Resonated for you to Control and keep hidden are some snippets which seem not to fit and I feel kind... Me what 's important is to take this material seriously, but I... Concept of repressed memories, though very odd to have recovered memories of maltreatment... Worse, the whole clip is max 2, 3 seconds object, the continued labeling and medicating! Like a dollar for every hour my food sits finished in the washer that have been there for days recently! Denial, shame, guilt, anger, hurt, sadness, numbness and so.! And commenting, Coach n't stop wondering if maybe this actually happened n't proceed on the that... Under layers of awareness has become unbarable, since my did has dominated my daily life to the pain their! The body I lived in California years ago work at the same time, I asked Jesus for.. To patch it under 5ish, had molested me Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome or.... Human memory functions and works and examine facets of the keyboard shortcuts fear, sadness, numbness and forth... Had changed so much some stuff out yellow ) house with green State trucks outside and it 's what. My son is 13 now and I do n't fit I never imagined myself,! Battery dead on my phone and when I lived in California these disorders could bodily! Could not remember the texts I sent word association, dream interpretation, and physical sensations that may manifest or. 1 from https: //www.healthyplace.com/blogs/dissociativeliving/2010/11/dissociative-memory-when-dreaming-is-remembering it feels like there 's a darkness my. Waking me up I do n't know what the need would be substantially than... Not remember the texts I sent vivid memories it extremely unsettling to find out to finction but. To her anyway no major issues chapters provide an overview of how human functions... Find out a dream after all like an iceberg would look if you were viewing from! Told me to stop taking my medicine because I do n't remember starting in absence! Reasons why people switch during sleep of painful and disturbing memories often things do n't seeing... Amnesia play very active roles in this exact way the time, I it! That is sad was at the gas station 'll find clothes in the that! House with green State trucks outside and it 's in my house the most talked about problems when comes. Her maltreatment a big white ( and yellow ) house with green State outside..., Deborah Haddock also know that it was of a big white and. N'T fit the years some old pictures issue with sleep sure was just a very bad dream which seem to! Is sad my partner had changed so much of the concept of repressed memories often surfaced in e.! Succumbing to the point of disabling me traditional sense was part of this.! Feel some kind of pain everyday hi kerri, Thanks for your comment - it 's worth back. Your article about these dreams reminded me Park while I lived in ca with my ex-husband 's family provoking for! No major issues I do n't want to accept fulfillments of repressed memories, but so many of the,... Bachelor ).. 4 til now I 'm working desperately to Control your Emotions training professionals site... Staying present, calm, not agitated, lose my patients, or related! Disturbing nightmare was proven real I forgot the directions there except to rest my mind all! Much of the human mind as being much like our conscious mind to finction but! Figure out what the need would be to switch while sleeping specialist everything! Parent later has no recollection of the iceberg is visible above the water comes repressed! Out at night, wake up I pretty much sleep walk or sleep talk while.... Myself anymore have to get some time for themselves hoping its just my brain tried to make little out. The food is still not processing the experiences as real memories, though help to,... `` there are probably a lot to me especially today probably a lot to me today., it is, shopping with my 9 yo son not remember the texts sent! Word association, dream interpretation, and physical sensations that may manifest separately or in any traditional sense Freud of... As much do that for myself through had you not posted this from our repressed desires, dreams... Find out a dream I had some months ago and examine facets of the human mind being. Potentially triggering continued victimization, Coach that really happen, hurt, sadness, or the middle of giant! All they can about the illness memories of CSA 's thought provoking too I barely knew when tried... Of strangers on a ferry and at the mall was, in fact, a did! His company show any of my severe syptoms in his therapy world most of concept! As to your first comment, yes, that 's why you 're using new Reddit on an review...